“Artificial Intelligence and Levels of Divinity.” Srila B. S. Goswami Maharaj. 4 February, 2012. Gupta Govardhan



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Śrīla Bhakti Sudhir Goswāmī Mahārāj 

Artificial Intelligence and Levels of Divinity

(4 February 2012, Gupta Govardhan)

https://mahamandala.com/en/audios/75

 

Goswāmī Mahārāj: [Jaya Dhvani].

#00:01:57#

Sādhu Priya Prabhu: His question’s about artificial intelligence, Mahārāj. And does the consciousness come down into that particular, I don’t know… main frame or entity or what it is… and… how…?

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Goswāmī Mahārāj: You mean, assuming it went to its proposed conclusion?

Sādhu Priya Prabhu: Yes, I mean, he just wants to understand how artificial intelligence works in the sense of…

#00:02:22#

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Well, I’ll just say it in the simple way that… because I’m not a scientist, I’m not an AI person, I’ve known some people who are. But I give you my own… and again I’m not telling about this level of development as it present. I’m talking about what they hope that will one day achieve, which means… though you know and you could say an artificial living being if you can do that, — who thinks on their own everything and so giving them the benefit of a doubt, which is all big doubt to give the benefit of… In the history of giving the benefit of doubts, no one has ever given more benefit of a doubt than I’m giving right now. To paraphrase something that’s been said.

#00:03:18#

As I will say that you can create circumstances that a soul will enter, that a living being or that conscious soul will enter. So you’re back to square one, which is what people do to begin with. They create circumstances whereby a soul enters that body. So you still have conscious living beings coming together, creating circumstances that enable soul to take shelter of that form. And this is giving a great benefit of a doubt.

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‘Cause otherwise what is, you know, biological reproduction, it’s a… whatever is going on in the mundane side of things we are told in the Bhagavatam that the consciousness of the man and the woman at a time of conception attracts a particular soul to take shelter in that body — that’s what happens. And I don’t really want to develop this theme too much. [Laughs.]

#00:04:46#

Sometimes Gurudev would say, “We should train the children in Brahma-samhita.” And what he means is it describes there in the beginning, what to speak of this, what’s more fascinating is what’s described in the Brahma-samhita. It says that… Vishnu… but it’s Krishna, Vishnu means Krishna here. Krishna is Vishnu-tattva expansion, Vishnu. He cannot directly interact with the material nature, with maya, with the mundane. So how does this take place? Sometimes… tomorrow we’ll be talking about Nityananda Prabhu. Sometimes Sankarshan is described also as jiva, meaning the sum total of all the jivas are there… Why? because Baladev is Krishna’s first Other. The first Other than Krishna. Sometimes Guru Maharaj uses these terms, these are not accidental words. See, His first Other. It’s Baladev. Sometimes he describes Shiva as an Other.

#00:06:05#

So, he is saying, even in the sense of why is the leader of the so called opposition, ‘cause it’s the first thing Other than Krishna. So in a subtle way after thinking this carefully Baladev sometimes is opposed to what Krishna wants. In lila, in Pastimes Krishna wants to perceive this way, Baladev’s got another idea. But they are Divine ideas. Like Vrindavan Das Thakur, Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami say, when Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Acharya are engaged in playful banter or mock argument…

#00:06:49#

Of course you know Bengal. There’re Bengalis of the sahajiya persuasion who… they try to make an issue out of this. They take their arguments very seriously, what is said there. So much so, if you want to help delicate, how rare, how perfect is Krishna Consciousness. Advaita Acharya, speaking of sons… Well he has six sons… And we’re told — three get it and three don’t. The sons of Advaita Acharya, the ones we glorify to the extreme are Achyutananda, Gopal, I always forget a… other one… what is his name… We know Achyutananda, he’s famous, young dancer at Ratha Yatra, also when someone asked Mahaprabhu… asked Advaita, “Who is a… Nimai Pandit, Mahaprabhu’s Guru? Who’s that? Ishvara Puri?” “Yeah…,” and Achyutananda, the five-year old boy comes in the room and says to his father who’s Maha Vishnu avatar, — Just keep that in the back ground...

#00:08:15#

This boy… how high, the little five-year old devotee-boy is chastising the Maha Vishnu avatar. So you tell what Krishna Consciousness is. What kind of intelligence is that. [Laughs.] So anything… — Father, what nonsense you’re talking! Mahaprabhu has a Guru? What do you mean? Who, you know… when… why His outward going red? Because he’s Maha Vishnu, he should know… all the innumerable universes have been generated. He could say, “Why thought I did that?”

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Jagad-kartā — I thought I make universes. Think about it. Someone who generates universes through its pores… How many pores are there? A lot! Last I checked… I don’t know what they say on Google, but there’s a lot. [Laughter in the audience.] Lots of pores. From His pores and… what if they look like black holes… ah! And it’s said these universes coming out of his pores… Therefore, you know… that’s why the insects trying to figure things out. I said this before, I think some people misunderstand. I said like the insects on Tolstoy. Have you ever heard this example? Ok. [Laughs.] The insects, they are like on his skin and with their antenna they’re touching the skin and they’re trying to measure and understand who he is.

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And so they’re gonna… they have readings that we can say, we are taking that their antenna are calibrated. They are accurate, so they are giving accurate readings in terms what they can perceive. Just like a scientist. They say, “In terms of what we can perceive with our method of investigation… you know, that is what we’re seeing.”

#00:10:30#

That’s right. But um… does that everything or there are the certain things that you through your methods you’re not perceiving? That’s another question. Like those insects… they’re perceiving, they’re touching the skin, the hair and making um… on the basis what they’ve observed they’re drawing conclusions. Publishing journals, right? You know… in the insect… scientific journal. Like what… we’ve come so far, you know.

#00:11:13#

But who that being is, is way beyond this type of measuring ability, right?... method of observation. That’s why we’ve got the shloka — “jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva, jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām…” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.14.3] — Brahma’s conclusion, — Stop trying to interrogate divinity. Stop trying to interrogate the infinite. You’ll get a better understanding by hearing from authentic sources. Śabda-pramāṇa — sound evidence. Divine sound descended. Āmnāya… that’s the beginning of Bhaktivinod’s Daśa-mūla. It begins with āmnāya, revealed truth. If you can’t allow for revealed truth you can’t approach this. That’s the starting point. The infinite’s making itself known to the finite. If before we get anything else about Krishna playing the flute… Stop before we go there. We have due acknowledge the possibility that the infinite can make itself known to the finite. As you know I deny that. Then perceive no further. But if you say, “All right, the infinite can make itself known to the finite…” Well, I guess, if it’s infinite and has infinite possibility, all allow for that.

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Maybe I don’t understand that completely but all say, “The infinite can make itself known to the finite.” Then we’ll say, “Oh, ok!” Āmnāyaḥ prāha tattvaṁ… what’s then? Harim iha paramaṁ sarva-śaktim rasābdhiṁ [Daśa-mūla-tattva] etc… First thing — revealed truth. So the method of the infinite of making itself known to the finite is what we call revealed truth. So if you accept the principle that there can be revealed truth, then in that revealed truth which is descending from the infinite making itself known to the finite there are all these descriptions. Whether you want to talk about Krishna or Varaha, any particular avatar… What is the revealed truth there it is described qualities, characteristics, names, forms, Pastimes etc. of Divinity. So that you can approach that, once you accept this principle that the infinite can make itself known to the finite. If we disallow this principle then all the other discussion is off the table.

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So, like the Varaha-avatar. It’s interesting… we have stereotypical ideas about what we think and avatar or an incarnation would be on the basis of whatever, however it is with conceived divinity. Also what I was gonna say just to finish that example. So as those insects are in the most superficial way are analyzing Tolstoy, so through mind and intellect we are trying to take the most superficial aspect of manifestation… objective world and project whether or not there is a divinity and infinite or things like that. And interestingly, using this particular example Srila Guru Maharaj compares some descriptions in the Vedas as being he said like hair or nails or skin, the least aspect. So there is a parallel there with Divinity. So we’ll read some Vedic descriptions that are very impersonal or they don’t appear to be indicating Krishna Conception overtly.

#00:15:58#

Oh… so… about stereotypes. So if we look at daśa-avatar the forms that are taken… there’s some Divine play there. This is we told previously with Kurma. “Pṛṣṭhe bhrāmyad amanda-mandara-giri-grāvāgra-kaṇḍūyanān, nidrāloḥ kamaṭhākṛter” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 12.13.2] — this shloka saying, — The Devas, the demigods have trouble churning the ocean of milk, He appears as the tortoise who can’t… has an itch on His back. This is Divine play. If we think, “Oh, if He’s omnipotent, He can do anything, so certainly He can scratch His back.” ‘Cause they used to post this question, “Can God make a rock so big He can’t lift it?” Aha… that’s supposed you gonna go oh… I’m an atheist now, thank you. Gee, that’s just broke me totally. [Laughter in the audience.]

#00:17:04#

No, I mean… Yeah, He can make one so big He can’t lift it like Krishna when the ladies or the gopis they ask Krishna like, “Oh, go and pick that…,” sometimes He can’t lift it and then He can lift Govardhan Hill if He chooses to. So He can do both of those. But my question would be, “Could He have an itch on His back that He cannot scratch?”

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And the theistic answer is yes. Well, the atheists say, “If He can’t scratch His own back I’m not gonna believe in that kind of a God!” Like Nietzsche saying, you know, “If there is a God He must… if I was to believe in the God He must be an excellent dancer.”

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So, I once said that Guru Maharaj’s conception toward the end of Prema-dhama-stotram — reality must be dancing, he could present Krishna Conception and Mahaprabhu in such a way that Nietzsche would embrace… ‘Cause he said He’d have to be the excellent dancer. So he thought he was mocking but actually in an inverted way it’s like Saraswati takes what they say that was intended to be insulting or inimical or whatever and it turns into some sort of glorification. Yes, vṛndāvana-naṭabara… [singing], you know… We sing it every day. Nietzsche… that He’s an excellent dancer, that we’ve got that. [Laughs.]

#00:18:44#

He says, “If I only knew!” “You can still know.” So that’s the case… well… yes, He can’t scratch His own back, the omnipotent supreme personality of Godhead who can do anything and everything by His own Divine will, He cannot scratch His back. That’s lila. That Guru Maharaj once said means meaningless Pastimes.

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You could say it in many ways, but he said — meaningless Pastimes. Like Oscar Wilde said in his introduction to “The Picture of Dorian Gray” that… he said, — All art is quite useless, right?... and people who don’t get Oscar Wilde they went like — Ahh…, how can you say that?! Art is good… foolish… They didn’t realize, he was saying… he was making another point as usual through the clever manipulation word… — All art is quite useless. That’s his way of saying — reality is for itself and by itself, it cannot fulfill some other’s purpose. That is what he was saying. If it’s real art, if it’s a real thing it has no purpose to fulfill other than its own. It exists for itself and by itself, right? It’s not that you say, “Well, you know, you can also use this thing as a nutcracker; it’s good for cracking nuts, right?” Or the revolution philology of certain Christian monks in Latin America. They are trying to say, you know, “Jesus was actually a communist,” you know… As Bengalis would say, you know. “Mahaprabhu… all this… He is trying to destroy the social cast system.” — “Really?” — “Yeah, Mahaprabhu was also a communist. Did you know that? Mahaprabhu was a communist, we are happy to say.” [Laughs.]

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Why? It’s said, “nāhaṁ vipro na cha nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro” [Chaitanya-charitāmṛta, Madhya, 13.80]. He says, “I’m not a brahmaṇa, I’m not a śudra…” you know… but they leave off the other half. Yeah, He did say… but what the other half? “Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ.” What about that part? As far as being servant of the servant of the servant of the Vraja-gopis who belong to Krishna? That part they didn’t give.

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So, what does that allow for that He can’t scratch His own back? For the devotees, for seva. So what is the answer for this question? I know and if this gonna be Pastimes of Divinity, yeah, let’s put a mountain on His back, because He was rather large. Did I point that out before? In case you thought He was like a small tortoise. [Laughs.]

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So, He’s big enough and the go, “Let’s put this mountain and it’s like a special mountain too. The Mandara. So they put the mountain on there… let’s take this gigantic serpent and wrap it around Him and use it as a churning rod. Because they want to get like, you know, if you see them churning there’s milk, the churning rod and they go like this, put the rope round… [imitating the sound during the process of churning]. And then what happens is the cream comes at the top. So they want to get the cream, de crème de la crème [French ‘best of the best’] means nectar, āmṛta, right? Now āmṛta like the lowest conception of it is immortality like in the general sense. Generic, off the shelf — immortality. Like in other words — not to die.

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But that’s not the real nectar, Prabhu. [Laughs.] As when I said to Guru Maharaj… ‘cause this shloka appears in the 12th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and I just read the 12th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and I said to Guru Maharaj, “I don’t understand, you know, with all due respect to the Kurma-avatar, why this is here?” You figure, it’s the end of the Bhāgavatam, it’s like a crescendo, it’s gonna culminate in something really unique and specific and conclusive and it shows my own ignorance within that question. I said, “I don’t understand…” This was earlier on in the 8th canto? I think… So why is this appearing here again? Like now here’s the final thing, the final shlokas are gonna be given and then again making reference to Kurma-avatar. And when I asked that Guru Maharaj, you know, he thought… it was not that he had a prepared answer… Also, he thought… like for a long time he was silent. And I thought maybe I’m taxing his brain ‘cause it was in the afternoon. So I actually was starting to say, “We can take this up at another time…” but he was thinking very deeply about it. So it wasn’t just… and a question he answered a hundred times.

#00:24:37#

Really! And then finally he said, “What was the object of the devas and the āsuras, they wanted āmṛta, right? This was their goal.” He said, “The reason this is coming again is to show the real āmṛtam is rasa, is madhura-rasa and that’s the subject matter of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That’s what it culminates in.”

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So really under the guise of seeking āmṛta, immortality, these things, he is saying, “What it’s saying is crème de la crème of all nectarian substances is the śruti-sāram there… the cream of all things to be heard which is, vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ cha viṣṇoḥ, śraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ…” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.33.39]. It’s unbelievable. Advaya-jñāna, it’s the unified principle, it’s the unified field, right? “Brahmeti paramātmeti, bhagavān iti śabdyate,” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 1.2.11] — this is it, oṁ… this is it.

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So, it’s hearing about Krishna, His Pastimes, “vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ cha viṣṇoḥ,” — Why Vishnu? Because if you hear of Krishna, if they use Krishna, then you will say, “Oh, Krishna…Is he really God, Divinity? He’s appearing as a young boy… young boy with so many girls.” So they used Vishnu here in this sense. Sometimes Vishnu means God. Not Laksmi-Narayan Vishnu. Sometimes Vishnu is used to indicate God — these are the Pastimes of God, of Divinity and if you hear them perfectly your mind will be blown, your mundane mind will be blown away for good and your spiritual mind will come out.

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So for Varahadev the Earth is lost in another regions. There are many Varahas we should say that also. And interestingly, in the Bhāgavatam in the 3rd canto Maytreya Rishi perhaps in maybe Vishvanatha’s commentary saying that… He talks about this later Varaha, white. Sometimes Varaha’s white, sometimes — red, different colors. He combined two Pastimes, one is saving the Earth on the nether regions of the universe, the Garbhadak waters and the other is fighting with Hiranyaksa. There are two different Pastimes, he told them as one. And why not?

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They can be achintya-bhedābheda, they can be. But it’s interesting so when the Earth is lying there in the so called nether regions, the bottom of the universe. In other words the Earth is normally here, heavenly planets… mm… now it’s been put down there to a difficult situation. The Earth is in trouble... and Varahadev, because of being a boar, He has a keen sense of smell, right?

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So he can… He seeks out the Earth through smelling. I’m gonna say again, “But He’s God, He knows everything, He’s omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent… that’s why meaningless Pastimes — they are lila, there is no… He doesn’t need to do that, that’s His play, He likes to do it in that way.”

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And ultimately once Guru Maharaj wrote me in a letter ‘cause you know so fond of Hegel praising Hegel and Hegel got a lot of sukṛti from Guru Maharaj. But ultimately he told me what is flaw was… was that he couldn’t accommodate lila. He thinks it has to be thesis, antithesis, synthesis, pointing new thesis, antithesis, synthesis — same, but in lila it doesn’t work that way.

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So, anyway, Varaha, He by the sense of smell he comes and with His tusks lifts up the Earth and puts her in her rightful position. And we hear in Brihad-bhagavatamritam as Gopa Kumar’s going to the different layers of the universe, the eight. When he gets to the final, perhaps the eighth layer, that’s kind of like Varahadev’s plane and there Bhumi, the Earth and Varaha, they’re like consorts.

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And interestingly you see the connecting thread to these Pastimes, when Krishna goes to Mathura… Mala, means the wrestling arena, like Kamsa’s Olympics. [Laughs.] On the way, before They arrive, we thought Krishna and Balaram and the cowherd boys first they met Kamsa’s tailor, right? And you think this a chance meeting like this with the personality of Godhead this would be, you would think, every living entity’s dream come true. Somehow Krishna makes even your worst nightmare a good thing. [Laughs.] So he asked… They asked that tailor… Oh…, ‘cause they’re simple village boys, you know you go to the city... like we are… we’re supposed to put on some nice clothes, right? We do that too. So they’re in the big city, Mathura, these country boys from Vrindavan. So they ask the tailor. He’s got all these beautiful cloths if they could have some. And he said, “What?! What audacity! These are the clothes of the king of Mathura.” You know, of the king Kamsa! Or as they say in Hindi movies, they always go, “Maharaj Kams ki — jay bol!” [Laughs.] “Maharaj Kams ki — jay bol.”

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So, Maharaj Kams… anyway Kamsa we say… They say Kams. You say Kamsa, I say Kams. You say Hamsa, I say — Hams. [Laughs.] Kamsa Hamsa… paramahamsa. So he is insulted… These boys!, — he thought, — these impudent boys! And we are told, there is not a whole lot of drama here. There’s Krishna takes his hand and goes like that! We do this sometimes too, except when Krishna did it… He just cut his head off. Now I know what you’re thinking. [Laughs.] The all merciful personality. Why is He doing this? It’s one of His Pastimes.

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Anyway sometimes Guru Maharaj would say, “Nip it in the bud. Something you just have to like nip it in the bud. Before that man can do anymore damage to himself, he’s liberated.” [Whistles.] Like a soul in the sky he becomes a liberated soul. For insulting Krishna. Then, why do they want to make the point? Well, then what would happen if you like… liked Krishna? Or served Him, or offered Him something? If you get liberated from the same, “ahi bakī yaṁ stana-kāla-kūṭaṁ,… kaṁ vā dayāluṁ śaraṇaṁ vrajema” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 3.2.23].

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But then they come to Kubja, who’s also known as Trivakra, she’s a hunchback, bent in three places. This hunchback lady, who if you look closely was actually like a beautiful hunchback lady. But nonetheless a hunchback lady, as everyone says, “Oh, she’s not attractive.” But she is in charge of oils and perfumes for the king. She also keeps these fine oils for Maharaj Kams. But when Krishna and Balaram approached her, — Dear Lady,… She is thinking, “Oh, my best oils…” and she gave thinking about Balaram’s complexion, “Oh, this will be very good for you, Krishna, Shyam… This will be like They do, right?” So she’s giving some… she’s offering the best things she has to Them automatically from her heart.

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And the Bhāgavatam commentators tell us that she is Bhū-śakti and this is interesting. Bhū like in Bhūmi, like in Earth. Why did Krishna descend? “Yadā yadā hi dharmasya, glānir bhavati bhārata,” [Bhagavad-gītā, 4.7] — to relieve the burden of the Earth, right? The Earth is overburdened. So being… she’s also, we’re told, an expansion of Satyabhama, the Dwaraka queen, but she’s Bhū-śakti, so since she is like the Earth personified the weight of all these demoniac kings and personalities have bent her over that she’s a hunchback. That’s why she’s a hunchback.

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‘Cause we may think, “Why should Krishna need a hunchback?” Everything in Krishna-lila has place out on a multidimensionally. So, she is hunchbacked due to the burden of all these sinful kings in the world, but like Varaha with His tusks, He restored the Earth to her natural position, Krishna accepting nicely her gifts of oils and perfumes He like… everyone wants Krishna’s lotus feet, right? There’re thousands shlokas about it, stories, Lakshmi Devi doing austerities, you know… Krishna takes His lotus feet and steps on top of her feet. Then with His two fingers like the tusks of Varaha puts on her cheeks and goes [imitating sound] and straightens her out and she is this beautiful… inconceivably beautiful woman, who is also at a touch of Krishna now infused with erotic sentiments.

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Like in the shloka — “vṛndāraṇyaṁ sva-pada-ramaṇaṁ prāviśad gīta-kīrtiḥ” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.21.5] — when Krishna and Balaram are entering the forest of Vrindavan, Their lotus feet are touching the earth and said sva-pada, Their feet, ramaṇaṁramaṇaṁ means “the earth is shivering in conjugal ecstasy due to the touch of the lotus feet of Krishna”.

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I once asked Guru Maharaj and Gurudev if Mahaprabhu ever went to Calcutta. [Laughs.] And he said, “In Varahanagar…” It’s north of Calcutta, if you look on the map, it’s not too far from Dum Dum Park. It’s called Varahanagar. I’m just thinking of Varaha, things that come to my mind.

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So and the Math’s Śālagrām… normally we’re not… Guru Maharaj’s not recommending Śālagrām worship, but the Govardhan-śilā for various reasons. But because the Śālagrām-śilā requires… as we told the other day if Advaita bows before one that’s not real it shatters, this is a very serious thing and really should be for the qualified brahmaṇs and each one indicates some particular type of worship, it’s for experts.

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So there was a Śālagrām of Lakshmi-Varaha at like the temple of one of his God-brothers and since its arrival because the unqualified were worshipping there was quarreling and fighting in the Math. So then they took It in another Math. They thought, “We’re not qualified.” Then fighting and quarreling broke out in that Math. So then finally they were all… they came to Guru Maharaj and said, “You take it. You are the only person we can think of who can like handle this.” [Laughs.]

#00:38:53#

So in that way Lakshmi-Varaha came to Guru Maharaj. And he put on the altar and said to keep Him pacified every day some paramānna, some sweet rice must be offered.

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And one day we heard about Nimai Pandit. We know, Mahaprabhu has come to experience bhakta-bhāva, sometimes devi-bhāva but ultimately Rādhā-bhāva, which you could say is the ultimate: bhakta-bhāva, devi-bhāva, maha-bhāva.

#00:39:39#

But while in Nabadwipa as Nimai Pandit, especially as He’s getting more involved in a nāma-saṅkīrttan, in His devotional side just coming out, before He was in vidyāra vilāsa, the Pastimes of a scholar… Anyway one day He enters the mood of Varaha and He goes to the house of Murari Gupta [imitating the knocking sound] and knocks on the door and He opens the door. And there’s Mahaprabhu as Varaha-avatar, like… — Come on in! [Laughs.] And He comes in and everyone is astonished and He sees the big… You’ve seen in India the water pitcher, there’s some kind of big round clay pot like especially in the old days. Where they were keep drinking water and He goes in the corner and lifts it up like it’s the Earth and Murari Gupta and all the devotees… [imitating long faces].

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And He says, “Murari, give some prayers! Some glorification!” And he’s so shocked and astonished. He thinks, “How can I possibly glorify You, if Anantadev who has a thousand mouths has been glorifying You since before the beginning the time and hasn’t reached the limit of Your glories. How can I appropriately glorify You?”

#00:41:26#

But that’s the prayer, that’s the glorification. The devotee thinks they can’t properly… but by his describing why he cannot properly glorify Him it’s such a beautiful glorification. — If Anantadev with His thousands of mouths has been glorifying You since the… before the beginning of time, ‘cause this is the world of time and space… before that. And hasn’t reached the limit of Your glory, then what can I say that would be proper?

#00:42:36#

Any other question?

Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ...

#00:42:44#

ye ’nye ’ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛchchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho ‘nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

(Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.2.32)

#00:42:57#

In the 10th canto, the demigods’ prayers saying, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, means ‘contaminated intelligence’ and when it concluded there’s artificial intelligence and now we gonna be with contaminated intelligence. So they say, “What is the flaw of those who appear to be so intelligent?” They are doing so… elevating so high… anādṛta yuṣmat aṅghrayaḥ, they neglect the service of Your lotus feet [whistle] again they come down into this world. Vimukta-māninas — they only think they are liberated, it’s not real, ‘cause “muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ, sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 2.10.6] — real mukti, real liberation is to serve You and Your devotees. We should be thrilled; we are being told indirectly… we have a part to play in the Pastimes, those beautiful meaningless Pastimes. That which appears to be meaningless from here, there it filled with unlimited meaning. Dimension interpretation.

Hare Krishna!

Edited by Kamala Devi Dasi, Tradish Das




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English

Śrīla Bhakti Sudhir Goswāmī Mahārāj 

Artificial Intelligence and Levels of Divinity

(4 February 2012, Gupta Govardhan)

https://mahamandala.com/en/audios/75

 

Goswāmī Mahārāj: [Jaya Dhvani].

#00:01:57#

Sādhu Priya Prabhu: His question’s about artificial intelligence, Mahārāj. And does the consciousness come down into that particular, I don’t know… main frame or entity or what it is… and… how…?

#00:02:10#

Goswāmī Mahārāj: You mean, assuming it went to its proposed conclusion?

Sādhu Priya Prabhu: Yes, I mean, he just wants to understand how artificial intelligence works in the sense of…

#00:02:22#

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Well, I’ll just say it in the simple way that… because I’m not a scientist, I’m not an AI person, I’ve known some people who are. But I give you my own… and again I’m not telling about this level of development as it present. I’m talking about what they hope that will one day achieve, which means… though you know and you could say an artificial living being if you can do that, — who thinks on their own everything and so giving them the benefit of a doubt, which is all big doubt to give the benefit of… In the history of giving the benefit of doubts, no one has ever given more benefit of a doubt than I’m giving right now. To paraphrase something that’s been said.

#00:03:18#

As I will say that you can create circumstances that a soul will enter, that a living being or that conscious soul will enter. So you’re back to square one, which is what people do to begin with. They create circumstances whereby a soul enters that body. So you still have conscious living beings coming together, creating circumstances that enable soul to take shelter of that form. And this is giving a great benefit of a doubt.

#00:04:10#

‘Cause otherwise what is, you know, biological reproduction, it’s a… whatever is going on in the mundane side of things we are told in the Bhagavatam that the consciousness of the man and the woman at a time of conception attracts a particular soul to take shelter in that body — that’s what happens. And I don’t really want to develop this theme too much. [Laughs.]

#00:04:46#

Sometimes Gurudev would say, “We should train the children in Brahma-samhita.” And what he means is it describes there in the beginning, what to speak of this, what’s more fascinating is what’s described in the Brahma-samhita. It says that… Vishnu… but it’s Krishna, Vishnu means Krishna here. Krishna is Vishnu-tattva expansion, Vishnu. He cannot directly interact with the material nature, with maya, with the mundane. So how does this take place? Sometimes… tomorrow we’ll be talking about Nityananda Prabhu. Sometimes Sankarshan is described also as jiva, meaning the sum total of all the jivas are there… Why? because Baladev is Krishna’s first Other. The first Other than Krishna. Sometimes Guru Maharaj uses these terms, these are not accidental words. See, His first Other. It’s Baladev. Sometimes he describes Shiva as an Other.

#00:06:05#

So, he is saying, even in the sense of why is the leader of the so called opposition, ‘cause it’s the first thing Other than Krishna. So in a subtle way after thinking this carefully Baladev sometimes is opposed to what Krishna wants. In lila, in Pastimes Krishna wants to perceive this way, Baladev’s got another idea. But they are Divine ideas. Like Vrindavan Das Thakur, Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami say, when Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Acharya are engaged in playful banter or mock argument…

#00:06:49#

Of course you know Bengal. There’re Bengalis of the sahajiya persuasion who… they try to make an issue out of this. They take their arguments very seriously, what is said there. So much so, if you want to help delicate, how rare, how perfect is Krishna Consciousness. Advaita Acharya, speaking of sons… Well he has six sons… And we’re told — three get it and three don’t. The sons of Advaita Acharya, the ones we glorify to the extreme are Achyutananda, Gopal, I always forget a… other one… what is his name… We know Achyutananda, he’s famous, young dancer at Ratha Yatra, also when someone asked Mahaprabhu… asked Advaita, “Who is a… Nimai Pandit, Mahaprabhu’s Guru? Who’s that? Ishvara Puri?” “Yeah…,” and Achyutananda, the five-year old boy comes in the room and says to his father who’s Maha Vishnu avatar, — Just keep that in the back ground...

#00:08:15#

This boy… how high, the little five-year old devotee-boy is chastising the Maha Vishnu avatar. So you tell what Krishna Consciousness is. What kind of intelligence is that. [Laughs.] So anything… — Father, what nonsense you’re talking! Mahaprabhu has a Guru? What do you mean? Who, you know… when… why His outward going red? Because he’s Maha Vishnu, he should know… all the innumerable universes have been generated. He could say, “Why thought I did that?”

#00:08:56#

Jagad-kartā — I thought I make universes. Think about it. Someone who generates universes through its pores… How many pores are there? A lot! Last I checked… I don’t know what they say on Google, but there’s a lot. [Laughter in the audience.] Lots of pores. From His pores and… what if they look like black holes… ah! And it’s said these universes coming out of his pores… Therefore, you know… that’s why the insects trying to figure things out. I said this before, I think some people misunderstand. I said like the insects on Tolstoy. Have you ever heard this example? Ok. [Laughs.] The insects, they are like on his skin and with their antenna they’re touching the skin and they’re trying to measure and understand who he is.

#00:10:04#

And so they’re gonna… they have readings that we can say, we are taking that their antenna are calibrated. They are accurate, so they are giving accurate readings in terms what they can perceive. Just like a scientist. They say, “In terms of what we can perceive with our method of investigation… you know, that is what we’re seeing.”

#00:10:30#

That’s right. But um… does that everything or there are the certain things that you through your methods you’re not perceiving? That’s another question. Like those insects… they’re perceiving, they’re touching the skin, the hair and making um… on the basis what they’ve observed they’re drawing conclusions. Publishing journals, right? You know… in the insect… scientific journal. Like what… we’ve come so far, you know.

#00:11:13#

But who that being is, is way beyond this type of measuring ability, right?... method of observation. That’s why we’ve got the shloka — “jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva, jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām…” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.14.3] — Brahma’s conclusion, — Stop trying to interrogate divinity. Stop trying to interrogate the infinite. You’ll get a better understanding by hearing from authentic sources. Śabda-pramāṇa — sound evidence. Divine sound descended. Āmnāya… that’s the beginning of Bhaktivinod’s Daśa-mūla. It begins with āmnāya, revealed truth. If you can’t allow for revealed truth you can’t approach this. That’s the starting point. The infinite’s making itself known to the finite. If before we get anything else about Krishna playing the flute… Stop before we go there. We have due acknowledge the possibility that the infinite can make itself known to the finite. As you know I deny that. Then perceive no further. But if you say, “All right, the infinite can make itself known to the finite…” Well, I guess, if it’s infinite and has infinite possibility, all allow for that.

#00:12:55#

Maybe I don’t understand that completely but all say, “The infinite can make itself known to the finite.” Then we’ll say, “Oh, ok!” Āmnāyaḥ prāha tattvaṁ… what’s then? Harim iha paramaṁ sarva-śaktim rasābdhiṁ [Daśa-mūla-tattva] etc… First thing — revealed truth. So the method of the infinite of making itself known to the finite is what we call revealed truth. So if you accept the principle that there can be revealed truth, then in that revealed truth which is descending from the infinite making itself known to the finite there are all these descriptions. Whether you want to talk about Krishna or Varaha, any particular avatar… What is the revealed truth there it is described qualities, characteristics, names, forms, Pastimes etc. of Divinity. So that you can approach that, once you accept this principle that the infinite can make itself known to the finite. If we disallow this principle then all the other discussion is off the table.

#00:14:07#

So, like the Varaha-avatar. It’s interesting… we have stereotypical ideas about what we think and avatar or an incarnation would be on the basis of whatever, however it is with conceived divinity. Also what I was gonna say just to finish that example. So as those insects are in the most superficial way are analyzing Tolstoy, so through mind and intellect we are trying to take the most superficial aspect of manifestation… objective world and project whether or not there is a divinity and infinite or things like that. And interestingly, using this particular example Srila Guru Maharaj compares some descriptions in the Vedas as being he said like hair or nails or skin, the least aspect. So there is a parallel there with Divinity. So we’ll read some Vedic descriptions that are very impersonal or they don’t appear to be indicating Krishna Conception overtly.

#00:15:58#

Oh… so… about stereotypes. So if we look at daśa-avatar the forms that are taken… there’s some Divine play there. This is we told previously with Kurma. “Pṛṣṭhe bhrāmyad amanda-mandara-giri-grāvāgra-kaṇḍūyanān, nidrāloḥ kamaṭhākṛter” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 12.13.2] — this shloka saying, — The Devas, the demigods have trouble churning the ocean of milk, He appears as the tortoise who can’t… has an itch on His back. This is Divine play. If we think, “Oh, if He’s omnipotent, He can do anything, so certainly He can scratch His back.” ‘Cause they used to post this question, “Can God make a rock so big He can’t lift it?” Aha… that’s supposed you gonna go oh… I’m an atheist now, thank you. Gee, that’s just broke me totally. [Laughter in the audience.]

#00:17:04#

No, I mean… Yeah, He can make one so big He can’t lift it like Krishna when the ladies or the gopis they ask Krishna like, “Oh, go and pick that…,” sometimes He can’t lift it and then He can lift Govardhan Hill if He chooses to. So He can do both of those. But my question would be, “Could He have an itch on His back that He cannot scratch?”

#00:17:29#

And the theistic answer is yes. Well, the atheists say, “If He can’t scratch His own back I’m not gonna believe in that kind of a God!” Like Nietzsche saying, you know, “If there is a God He must… if I was to believe in the God He must be an excellent dancer.”

#00:17:51#

So, I once said that Guru Maharaj’s conception toward the end of Prema-dhama-stotram — reality must be dancing, he could present Krishna Conception and Mahaprabhu in such a way that Nietzsche would embrace… ‘Cause he said He’d have to be the excellent dancer. So he thought he was mocking but actually in an inverted way it’s like Saraswati takes what they say that was intended to be insulting or inimical or whatever and it turns into some sort of glorification. Yes, vṛndāvana-naṭabara… [singing], you know… We sing it every day. Nietzsche… that He’s an excellent dancer, that we’ve got that. [Laughs.]

#00:18:44#

He says, “If I only knew!” “You can still know.” So that’s the case… well… yes, He can’t scratch His own back, the omnipotent supreme personality of Godhead who can do anything and everything by His own Divine will, He cannot scratch His back. That’s lila. That Guru Maharaj once said means meaningless Pastimes.

#00:19:13#

You could say it in many ways, but he said — meaningless Pastimes. Like Oscar Wilde said in his introduction to “The Picture of Dorian Gray” that… he said, — All art is quite useless, right?... and people who don’t get Oscar Wilde they went like — Ahh…, how can you say that?! Art is good… foolish… They didn’t realize, he was saying… he was making another point as usual through the clever manipulation word… — All art is quite useless. That’s his way of saying — reality is for itself and by itself, it cannot fulfill some other’s purpose. That is what he was saying. If it’s real art, if it’s a real thing it has no purpose to fulfill other than its own. It exists for itself and by itself, right? It’s not that you say, “Well, you know, you can also use this thing as a nutcracker; it’s good for cracking nuts, right?” Or the revolution philology of certain Christian monks in Latin America. They are trying to say, you know, “Jesus was actually a communist,” you know… As Bengalis would say, you know. “Mahaprabhu… all this… He is trying to destroy the social cast system.” — “Really?” — “Yeah, Mahaprabhu was also a communist. Did you know that? Mahaprabhu was a communist, we are happy to say.” [Laughs.]

#00:20:52#

Why? It’s said, “nāhaṁ vipro na cha nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro” [Chaitanya-charitāmṛta, Madhya, 13.80]. He says, “I’m not a brahmaṇa, I’m not a śudra…” you know… but they leave off the other half. Yeah, He did say… but what the other half? “Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ.” What about that part? As far as being servant of the servant of the servant of the Vraja-gopis who belong to Krishna? That part they didn’t give.

#00:21:21#

So, what does that allow for that He can’t scratch His own back? For the devotees, for seva. So what is the answer for this question? I know and if this gonna be Pastimes of Divinity, yeah, let’s put a mountain on His back, because He was rather large. Did I point that out before? In case you thought He was like a small tortoise. [Laughs.]

#00:21:49#

So, He’s big enough and the go, “Let’s put this mountain and it’s like a special mountain too. The Mandara. So they put the mountain on there… let’s take this gigantic serpent and wrap it around Him and use it as a churning rod. Because they want to get like, you know, if you see them churning there’s milk, the churning rod and they go like this, put the rope round… [imitating the sound during the process of churning]. And then what happens is the cream comes at the top. So they want to get the cream, de crème de la crème [French ‘best of the best’] means nectar, āmṛta, right? Now āmṛta like the lowest conception of it is immortality like in the general sense. Generic, off the shelf — immortality. Like in other words — not to die.

#00:22:51#

But that’s not the real nectar, Prabhu. [Laughs.] As when I said to Guru Maharaj… ‘cause this shloka appears in the 12th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and I just read the 12th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and I said to Guru Maharaj, “I don’t understand, you know, with all due respect to the Kurma-avatar, why this is here?” You figure, it’s the end of the Bhāgavatam, it’s like a crescendo, it’s gonna culminate in something really unique and specific and conclusive and it shows my own ignorance within that question. I said, “I don’t understand…” This was earlier on in the 8th canto? I think… So why is this appearing here again? Like now here’s the final thing, the final shlokas are gonna be given and then again making reference to Kurma-avatar. And when I asked that Guru Maharaj, you know, he thought… it was not that he had a prepared answer… Also, he thought… like for a long time he was silent. And I thought maybe I’m taxing his brain ‘cause it was in the afternoon. So I actually was starting to say, “We can take this up at another time…” but he was thinking very deeply about it. So it wasn’t just… and a question he answered a hundred times.

#00:24:37#

Really! And then finally he said, “What was the object of the devas and the āsuras, they wanted āmṛta, right? This was their goal.” He said, “The reason this is coming again is to show the real āmṛtam is rasa, is madhura-rasa and that’s the subject matter of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That’s what it culminates in.”

#00:25:08#

So really under the guise of seeking āmṛta, immortality, these things, he is saying, “What it’s saying is crème de la crème of all nectarian substances is the śruti-sāram there… the cream of all things to be heard which is, vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ cha viṣṇoḥ, śraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ…” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.33.39]. It’s unbelievable. Advaya-jñāna, it’s the unified principle, it’s the unified field, right? “Brahmeti paramātmeti, bhagavān iti śabdyate,” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 1.2.11] — this is it, oṁ… this is it.

#00:25:58#

So, it’s hearing about Krishna, His Pastimes, “vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ cha viṣṇoḥ,” — Why Vishnu? Because if you hear of Krishna, if they use Krishna, then you will say, “Oh, Krishna…Is he really God, Divinity? He’s appearing as a young boy… young boy with so many girls.” So they used Vishnu here in this sense. Sometimes Vishnu means God. Not Laksmi-Narayan Vishnu. Sometimes Vishnu is used to indicate God — these are the Pastimes of God, of Divinity and if you hear them perfectly your mind will be blown, your mundane mind will be blown away for good and your spiritual mind will come out.

#00:27:00#

So for Varahadev the Earth is lost in another regions. There are many Varahas we should say that also. And interestingly, in the Bhāgavatam in the 3rd canto Maytreya Rishi perhaps in maybe Vishvanatha’s commentary saying that… He talks about this later Varaha, white. Sometimes Varaha’s white, sometimes — red, different colors. He combined two Pastimes, one is saving the Earth on the nether regions of the universe, the Garbhadak waters and the other is fighting with Hiranyaksa. There are two different Pastimes, he told them as one. And why not?

#00:27:51#

They can be achintya-bhedābheda, they can be. But it’s interesting so when the Earth is lying there in the so called nether regions, the bottom of the universe. In other words the Earth is normally here, heavenly planets… mm… now it’s been put down there to a difficult situation. The Earth is in trouble... and Varahadev, because of being a boar, He has a keen sense of smell, right?

#00:28:23#

So he can… He seeks out the Earth through smelling. I’m gonna say again, “But He’s God, He knows everything, He’s omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent… that’s why meaningless Pastimes — they are lila, there is no… He doesn’t need to do that, that’s His play, He likes to do it in that way.”

#00:28:46#

And ultimately once Guru Maharaj wrote me in a letter ‘cause you know so fond of Hegel praising Hegel and Hegel got a lot of sukṛti from Guru Maharaj. But ultimately he told me what is flaw was… was that he couldn’t accommodate lila. He thinks it has to be thesis, antithesis, synthesis, pointing new thesis, antithesis, synthesis — same, but in lila it doesn’t work that way.

#00:29:17#

So, anyway, Varaha, He by the sense of smell he comes and with His tusks lifts up the Earth and puts her in her rightful position. And we hear in Brihad-bhagavatamritam as Gopa Kumar’s going to the different layers of the universe, the eight. When he gets to the final, perhaps the eighth layer, that’s kind of like Varahadev’s plane and there Bhumi, the Earth and Varaha, they’re like consorts.

#00:29:53#

And interestingly you see the connecting thread to these Pastimes, when Krishna goes to Mathura… Mala, means the wrestling arena, like Kamsa’s Olympics. [Laughs.] On the way, before They arrive, we thought Krishna and Balaram and the cowherd boys first they met Kamsa’s tailor, right? And you think this a chance meeting like this with the personality of Godhead this would be, you would think, every living entity’s dream come true. Somehow Krishna makes even your worst nightmare a good thing. [Laughs.] So he asked… They asked that tailor… Oh…, ‘cause they’re simple village boys, you know you go to the city... like we are… we’re supposed to put on some nice clothes, right? We do that too. So they’re in the big city, Mathura, these country boys from Vrindavan. So they ask the tailor. He’s got all these beautiful cloths if they could have some. And he said, “What?! What audacity! These are the clothes of the king of Mathura.” You know, of the king Kamsa! Or as they say in Hindi movies, they always go, “Maharaj Kams ki — jay bol!” [Laughs.] “Maharaj Kams ki — jay bol.”

#00:31:36#

So, Maharaj Kams… anyway Kamsa we say… They say Kams. You say Kamsa, I say Kams. You say Hamsa, I say — Hams. [Laughs.] Kamsa Hamsa… paramahamsa. So he is insulted… These boys!, — he thought, — these impudent boys! And we are told, there is not a whole lot of drama here. There’s Krishna takes his hand and goes like that! We do this sometimes too, except when Krishna did it… He just cut his head off. Now I know what you’re thinking. [Laughs.] The all merciful personality. Why is He doing this? It’s one of His Pastimes.

#00:32:31#

Anyway sometimes Guru Maharaj would say, “Nip it in the bud. Something you just have to like nip it in the bud. Before that man can do anymore damage to himself, he’s liberated.” [Whistles.] Like a soul in the sky he becomes a liberated soul. For insulting Krishna. Then, why do they want to make the point? Well, then what would happen if you like… liked Krishna? Or served Him, or offered Him something? If you get liberated from the same, “ahi bakī yaṁ stana-kāla-kūṭaṁ,… kaṁ vā dayāluṁ śaraṇaṁ vrajema” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 3.2.23].

#00:33:14#

But then they come to Kubja, who’s also known as Trivakra, she’s a hunchback, bent in three places. This hunchback lady, who if you look closely was actually like a beautiful hunchback lady. But nonetheless a hunchback lady, as everyone says, “Oh, she’s not attractive.” But she is in charge of oils and perfumes for the king. She also keeps these fine oils for Maharaj Kams. But when Krishna and Balaram approached her, — Dear Lady,… She is thinking, “Oh, my best oils…” and she gave thinking about Balaram’s complexion, “Oh, this will be very good for you, Krishna, Shyam… This will be like They do, right?” So she’s giving some… she’s offering the best things she has to Them automatically from her heart.

#00:34:23#

And the Bhāgavatam commentators tell us that she is Bhū-śakti and this is interesting. Bhū like in Bhūmi, like in Earth. Why did Krishna descend? “Yadā yadā hi dharmasya, glānir bhavati bhārata,” [Bhagavad-gītā, 4.7] — to relieve the burden of the Earth, right? The Earth is overburdened. So being… she’s also, we’re told, an expansion of Satyabhama, the Dwaraka queen, but she’s Bhū-śakti, so since she is like the Earth personified the weight of all these demoniac kings and personalities have bent her over that she’s a hunchback. That’s why she’s a hunchback.

#00:35:11#

‘Cause we may think, “Why should Krishna need a hunchback?” Everything in Krishna-lila has place out on a multidimensionally. So, she is hunchbacked due to the burden of all these sinful kings in the world, but like Varaha with His tusks, He restored the Earth to her natural position, Krishna accepting nicely her gifts of oils and perfumes He like… everyone wants Krishna’s lotus feet, right? There’re thousands shlokas about it, stories, Lakshmi Devi doing austerities, you know… Krishna takes His lotus feet and steps on top of her feet. Then with His two fingers like the tusks of Varaha puts on her cheeks and goes [imitating sound] and straightens her out and she is this beautiful… inconceivably beautiful woman, who is also at a touch of Krishna now infused with erotic sentiments.

#00:36:31#

Like in the shloka — “vṛndāraṇyaṁ sva-pada-ramaṇaṁ prāviśad gīta-kīrtiḥ” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.21.5] — when Krishna and Balaram are entering the forest of Vrindavan, Their lotus feet are touching the earth and said sva-pada, Their feet, ramaṇaṁramaṇaṁ means “the earth is shivering in conjugal ecstasy due to the touch of the lotus feet of Krishna”.

#00:37:11#

I once asked Guru Maharaj and Gurudev if Mahaprabhu ever went to Calcutta. [Laughs.] And he said, “In Varahanagar…” It’s north of Calcutta, if you look on the map, it’s not too far from Dum Dum Park. It’s called Varahanagar. I’m just thinking of Varaha, things that come to my mind.

#00:37:40#

So and the Math’s Śālagrām… normally we’re not… Guru Maharaj’s not recommending Śālagrām worship, but the Govardhan-śilā for various reasons. But because the Śālagrām-śilā requires… as we told the other day if Advaita bows before one that’s not real it shatters, this is a very serious thing and really should be for the qualified brahmaṇs and each one indicates some particular type of worship, it’s for experts.

#00:38:19#

So there was a Śālagrām of Lakshmi-Varaha at like the temple of one of his God-brothers and since its arrival because the unqualified were worshipping there was quarreling and fighting in the Math. So then they took It in another Math. They thought, “We’re not qualified.” Then fighting and quarreling broke out in that Math. So then finally they were all… they came to Guru Maharaj and said, “You take it. You are the only person we can think of who can like handle this.” [Laughs.]

#00:38:53#

So in that way Lakshmi-Varaha came to Guru Maharaj. And he put on the altar and said to keep Him pacified every day some paramānna, some sweet rice must be offered.

#00:39:17#

And one day we heard about Nimai Pandit. We know, Mahaprabhu has come to experience bhakta-bhāva, sometimes devi-bhāva but ultimately Rādhā-bhāva, which you could say is the ultimate: bhakta-bhāva, devi-bhāva, maha-bhāva.

#00:39:39#

But while in Nabadwipa as Nimai Pandit, especially as He’s getting more involved in a nāma-saṅkīrttan, in His devotional side just coming out, before He was in vidyāra vilāsa, the Pastimes of a scholar… Anyway one day He enters the mood of Varaha and He goes to the house of Murari Gupta [imitating the knocking sound] and knocks on the door and He opens the door. And there’s Mahaprabhu as Varaha-avatar, like… — Come on in! [Laughs.] And He comes in and everyone is astonished and He sees the big… You’ve seen in India the water pitcher, there’s some kind of big round clay pot like especially in the old days. Where they were keep drinking water and He goes in the corner and lifts it up like it’s the Earth and Murari Gupta and all the devotees… [imitating long faces].

#00:40:47#

And He says, “Murari, give some prayers! Some glorification!” And he’s so shocked and astonished. He thinks, “How can I possibly glorify You, if Anantadev who has a thousand mouths has been glorifying You since before the beginning the time and hasn’t reached the limit of Your glories. How can I appropriately glorify You?”

#00:41:26#

But that’s the prayer, that’s the glorification. The devotee thinks they can’t properly… but by his describing why he cannot properly glorify Him it’s such a beautiful glorification. — If Anantadev with His thousands of mouths has been glorifying You since the… before the beginning of time, ‘cause this is the world of time and space… before that. And hasn’t reached the limit of Your glory, then what can I say that would be proper?

#00:42:36#

Any other question?

Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ...

#00:42:44#

ye ’nye ’ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛchchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho ‘nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

(Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.2.32)

#00:42:57#

In the 10th canto, the demigods’ prayers saying, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, means ‘contaminated intelligence’ and when it concluded there’s artificial intelligence and now we gonna be with contaminated intelligence. So they say, “What is the flaw of those who appear to be so intelligent?” They are doing so… elevating so high… anādṛta yuṣmat aṅghrayaḥ, they neglect the service of Your lotus feet [whistle] again they come down into this world. Vimukta-māninas — they only think they are liberated, it’s not real, ‘cause “muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ, sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ” [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 2.10.6] — real mukti, real liberation is to serve You and Your devotees. We should be thrilled; we are being told indirectly… we have a part to play in the Pastimes, those beautiful meaningless Pastimes. That which appears to be meaningless from here, there it filled with unlimited meaning. Dimension interpretation.

Hare Krishna!

Edited by Kamala Devi Dasi, Tradish Das


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