Question: How do we reconcile the fact that in some sastras it says that Siva is supreme?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Siva is a type who is enquiring after something, but Visnu is a type who has everything within. Siva is searching.
The sastra says differently for different sections according to their capability of catching the truth. In the primary literature, it may be said that the sun is fixed and the planets are moving, but in higher astronomy it may be said that the sun is also moving with all the planets also moving around it. But to the children, the whole truth may not be said. The truth is given partially, and by instalments. Sastra has adopted this policy of giving things by instalments in order that it will be acceptable accordingly by the different sections. Then, when they will reach to that standard, the sastra will come to say, «This is not the end, my boy. You will have to go further.» This policy has been adopted in the sastra by the givers of the revealed truth.
loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva
nitya hi jantor na hi tatra chodana
vyavasthitis tesu vivaha-yajna-
sura-grahair asu nivrttir ista
Partially, by instalments, the truth is being distributed to them because they cannot accept the whole truth. They cannot understand the whole truth at once. The scripture advises that, «If you want to be united with the ladies, then marry and in that way go on. If you want to take fish and meat, then you dedicate it to a certain deity and in society you take it partially under the direction of a particular company who will make such arrangements. Your merit will be given to that animal whose body you are taking, but go on in contact with that company and take meat.» The advice is meant like that.
Similarly, «If you want to take wine, then first offer it to such and such god and then take it.» But it is not that, «You do not want it, but I am forcing it on you.» Rather, «Because you cannot imagine your existence without the help of these things, I am giving some provision to you under some restriction. Then again, I will come and take you up to the further, higher advice: ‘Now take this!’»
Then, presently the sastra tells, «Already for fifty years you have been trying to enjoy, now come to the life of renunciation: give up everything. Come and devote yourself exclusively in the search for the future life in a scientific way.» In this way, the progressive steps are given. Human life itself is gradually progressing: first there is student life, then household life, to work, then the third life is for retirement, and the fourth life, sannyas, is for giving up everything and going on independently. In this way, there is classification in the human life.
In the section of the Puranas known as the Saiva-puranas, it tells that Siva is supreme. The Puranas are divided into three. In all there are eighteen in number: six are sattvik, the upper division; six are rajasik, the middle division; and six are tamasik, the lower division. This classification is mentioned in the Puranas. In Gaudiya-kanthahara, you will find mention of all these things, the classification of the Puranas. Some are meant for the lower, some for the middle, and some for the higher sections of society. For this purpose, the Puranas are divided into three groups of six. Vedartha-puranat: the Puranas are supplementary to the meanings of the Vedas, the higher revelation scriptures. The Puranas are called Puranas because they make the meaning of the Veda full. According to the degree and capacity of the people, sastra has approached in different levels.
Question: So, can we say that the Puranas are giving a lower conception?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Some Puranas are giving the lower or minimum conception: «The minimum is that you do this.» The Manu-samhita says: «I am giving a list of fishes by name: ‘Eat these particular types of fish but do not take these other species.’ That does not mean that without fish, if you go on, then that will be bad. But because you cannot do without taking these things, because it is inconceivable for you to go on with your life without taking these things, I am giving the advice, ‘That type will create some disease, that one will create some mischief, that one even more mischief; therefore, the less mischievous things you should take.’ But my underlying meaning is that I shall call you after some time, ‘Go up!’ That indomitable spirit is within you to get all these lower things, so I must at least advise you to do something (pravrttir esa bhutanam).»
The Upanisads make the analogy of riding on a horse. The horse is running towards a particular direction, and although the rider pulls on the reins, the horse won’t come back. Then, he is allowed to go at his free will for some time, and then again the rider draws on the reins. In this way, after some attempts, the horse will come back on course; it can be turned. In the Upanisads, it is mentioned that our ego is running like the horse. This body is a chariot, and the senses are like horses taking me towards their particular wrong directions. But I shall try to take them, to alter their course, to some other direction. They may not care for me, so what to do but let them go a little ahead for some time. But I shall try again and again, and eventually I shall see that the horse is responding to my command. The indomitable tendency towards this exploitation is here (pravrttir esa bhutanam). But what to do except give it all up and go to the other side beyond indifference and abnegation (nivrttis tu maha-phala). And that is proper adjustment.
yajnarthat karmano ’nyatra loko ’yam karma-bandhanah
tad-artham karma kaunteya mukta-sangah samachara
Everything should be connected with the centre; otherwise, you will be responsible for exploitation and thereby get reaction. But if you can connect everything according to the scripture, according to the rules to deal with the centre, then you are relieved from your local responsibility. You must work in the central intensity, and the centre will make adjustment.
Question: Is the varnasram-dharma system given in the Puranas?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, it is in the Puranas.
Question: Is it given in the sattvik sastra but not in the rajasik or tamasik sastra?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: In each of the tamasik, rajasik, and sattvik scriptures, varnasram-dharma is both included and classified. But sattvik is also not nirguna, but the nirguna campaign may be begun from any post of varnasram. A sudra may come to have direct connection with the centre, whereas a brahman may not accept, and he will have to turn again to go downwards. It is revolving like this, like a wheel going up and coming down. A brahman is not sure to be a brahman always. After this birth, he may go down again to the lowest position and then again come back up (abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino). This sattva-guna, raja-guna, and tama-guna are interchanging their positions always, but nirguna has permanent value. That nirguna life may be begun from any position. A sudra may begin that nirguna life, a brahman also may — anyone may do or anyone may not do. Those who do not will revolve in this guna-maya, going up and coming down. Exploiting means getting a loan and becoming heavy. That heaviness takes him down. Then, in the downward position, he is being exploited, and thereby the loan becomes cleared: he is made light and goes up. In this way, he is coming and going — exploiting and being exploited. It is a vicious circle. To get nirguna is to get out of that circle.
tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah
tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham
kalena sarvatra gabhira-ramhasa
«Persons who are actually intelligent and philosophically inclined should endeavour only for that purposeful end which is not obtainable even by wandering from the topmost planes down to the lowest planet. As far as happiness derived from sense enjoyment is concerned, it can be obtained automatically in course of time, just as in course of time we obtain miseries even though we do not desire them.»
By the great force of time and space, it is revolving. But only those who can acquire some sukrti, who have some tendency to serve in connection with the nirguna plane, will survive. Gradually, they will make themselves free from this vicious circle, free from that force of going up and down, up and down.
Question: I understand that in the varnasram-dharma system even a sudra must follow regulative principles.
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: By that he may attain the rajasik plane and gradually to the sattvik plane. But this is all guna-maya. Nirguna is something else.
A brahman may have some facility, but in spite of that he may not connect with nirguna. He may go to Brahmaloka, but he will remain within this material plane. The connection with nirguna is independent of this varnasram. There is asura-varnasram and daiva-varnasram: the classification of two varnasrams. Where there is recognition of the highest, nirguna, that is called daiva-varnasram. And where there is consideration of the flesh in this guna-mayi jagat — the good and bad within the misconceived realm, the standard of misconception — that is called asura-varnasram. From the standpoint of the absolute consideration, when varnasram is connected with nirguna, then that is really helpful, otherwise not.
Question: Can we say that there is some facility for eating meat within the varnasram system?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, but that is saguna. Saguna, it is within the mundane nature. We take the flesh of the beast but with some mantram, some regulation, some deity, some particular company, association; all these things are involved. And what will that do? We are using his flesh, and the soul of the beast will get something from our merit. So, it is not proper, but it is not such a brutal violence. It is modified violence, and the soul of the animal will be compensated in the next life according to the method in which he is killed. But those who are taking advantage of his flesh are not devotees. They are ordinary men, and they will get ordinary sattvik or rajasik result. There is no touch of devotion proper there, no touch of nirguna.
But in the Vaisnava section, according to sastra, the vegetables can be offered to Narayan. Those vegetables offered to Narayan will be elevated automatically. And those who are giving, who are offering, and for the service are taking that prasadam, for them there is no harm. They will be elevated by taking that prasadam. So, in the Vaisnava conception, both the eater and the eaten, all are going up because they are coming in connection with that highest goodwill. But that is not the case with other ‘goodness’.
‘dvaite’ bhadrabhadra-jnana, saba — ‘manodharma’
‘ei bhala, ei manda’ — ei saba ‘bhrama’
In the world of misconception, the plane is misconceived, so what real benefit, good or bad, may be there? Ultimately, all is false, as in a dream. So, whether it is a good dream or a bad dream, there is not much difference there. In such a plane of unreality, to consider some thing to be good and another thing to be bad is all based on falsity, misconception.
Question: If an animal is killed, must that soul come again in the same species?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Not always. The results of his previous actions will come forward. After the marriage of Devaki to Vasudev, Kamsa, as a charioteer, is taking Devaki and Vasudev to her father-in-law’s house. At that time, some sound came from the sky saying, «You are relishing this marriage, but the eighth son of your sister will be your killer!» And suddenly Kamsa jumped and took his sister by the hair and was about to behead her. Then, Vasudev came to oppose him: «What are you doing? You are a hero, and you are killing your sister? Being afraid for your life, you stoop so low!» In this way on that occasion, there was some talk, and in course of that Vasudev said, «Before one dies, birth begins.»
Birth and rebirth begin before one’s death. Why? How is it possible? The next birth begins before his death because the past karmas come to take their satisfaction. Each one comes with its demands. All tendencies come to get the next chance, the first chance. It is automatically decided in some computer-like way, and when the body is left, the subtle body captures the soul and takes it. He may go anywhere and everywhere as the consequence of his previous actions. In the shape of an idea, the consequences come to take possession.
So, after a human birth, one may go down to be a tree. Even by living in accordance with the varnasram-dharma system, we also find that some deva is coming to be a stone or a tree in his next life; all these things are happening. So, when one dies, it may be possible, but it is not sure that a brahman will again be a brahman in his next birth. If he has done some previous bad action, then that may take him to the worst position, whereas a chandala, who is finishing his lowest form of life, may come to be a brahman at once. According to karma, and the intensity and priority of the karma, the results have their effects.