Question: We hear that all truth is present in the scriptures, specifically Srimad Bhagavatam, but how do we know when we are supposed to take the expressions in the scriptures literally or figuratively? How do we understand what the scriptures are really trying to say?
Srila Govinda Maharaj: How will we understand anything about the scriptures? We must first enter into a school. When we are admitted into a school we are given appropriate lessons for our level by our teacher. When I am studying in a school I pass through class one to class two, then to class three, and so on. In each class what I am taught is not exactly the same. Each higher class does not present everything in the same way as the previous classes do. But whatever I learn in each class is appropriate and beneficial for me at my level.
The Vedas, Vedanta, Upanisads, Srimad Bhagavatam, and other scripture are an ocean, and they contain so many verses which have many different meanings. Ultimately, they are all guiding us towards the same goal — Krishna-bhakti — but we are not always able to understand that. Sometimes it is very difficult to see that actually. Many different practising processes are explained in the various scriptures: karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, astanga-yoga, bhakti-yoga, and others. If we want to understand the real advice of all the scriptures, if we want to understand where the scriptures’ knowledge is trying to take our consciousness, then it is first necessary to faithfully study the scriptural lessons that are appropriate for us in a school, under the guidance of a proper teacher. That is the best process.
We must be very conscious about reading the scriptures. The scriptures are not the easiest thing to understand. Srimad Bhagavad-gita explains how a student should approach a teacher to learn spiritual knowledge:
tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinah
Here it is explained that a student must be a little qualified to approach a teacher. Srimad Bhagavad-gita says, «First be surrendered, then enquire and serve. Your Guru will want to hear your questions and bestow his mercy upon you if you are really surrendered to him, you are humble, and you have real hankering.» First approach Gurudev through surrender; then serve him. Surrender alone is not sufficient. Surrendered service to Gurudev is the main thing that will give the sincere seeker the proper result in his search for transcendental knowledge. Someone may acquire general knowledge in other ways, but without pranipat, surrender; pariprasna, sincere enquiry; and seva, service, transcendental knowledge will not reveal itself in the heart.
When a student is a little qualified in this way and finds a Guru who is a qualified teacher, the student must surrender to him, ask him questions, and serve him. Everything will be revealed in the heart of the qualified sincere seeker by the qualified Guru when the disciple is enriched with these three qualities of surrender, enquiry and service — enriched with a mood of devotion. When that mood is present, everything will be set right: the Guru’s heart will be melted by that student’s sincere approach, and the Guru will be ready to teach the student. By this process the student will understand, through the melted heart of his Guru, the essence of all the scriptures — everything that is to be found within the Vedas, Vedanta, Upanisads, Srimad Bhagavatam, and the other scriptures. This is how we should try to learn the scriptures.
We can see that the scriptures themselves always advise us about the position and necessity of the proper teacher, the sadhu. In Sri Chaitanya-charitamrta, Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami advises us:
yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane7
«Go to the Vaisnava, the devotee, and hear from him the meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam; only read Srimad Bhagavatam in the association of the Vaisnavas.»
Without the Vaisnava we cannot understand the meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam, and we will undoubtedly proceed in the wrong direction. It is necessary to hear the explanation of Srimad Bhagavatam, or any scripture, from some expert. Only when we hear from an expert can we understand the real meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam. Our knowledge is very limited. Nobody can say, «I am full with all knowledge.» Even Srila Guru Maharaj told us, «I am a student. You consider yourselves masters? I consider myself to be a student, and all of you to be students. Nobody is a master.»
It was Srila Guru Maharaj’s conception that we are all students. Therefore we must try to understand what our lessons are from a proper teacher. Through one who understands the essence of the lessons we are to learn, we can easily understand what our lessons are. It is very difficult to understand otherwise. We may make wrong interpretations, not understanding the real meaning of the scriptures, and we may be deceived. It is necessary to hear the meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam from a proper interpreter and servitor of Krishna like Srila Guru Maharaj.
Srimad Bhagavatam itself has given two formulas for understanding Srimad Bhagavatam. One prescribes reading Srimad Bhagavatam, and the other prohibits reading Srimad Bhagavatam. If someone suddenly opens Srimad Bhagavatam and follows what comes in front of them, then they will proceed in the wrong way. It is necessary to harmonise the whole of Srimad Bhagavatam’s conception. And who can harmonise it? Only one who knows the fundamental basis and full meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam.
There are so many things written in the scriptures, and they are no doubt very good things. But because we have limited knowledge we can also easily misunderstand the words of the scriptures. We must discuss the scriptures with a sadhu to clarify that we are understanding the scriptures properly.
Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido
bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah
taj-josanad asv apavarga-vartmani
sraddha ratir bhaktir anukramisyati
The Lord Himself explains in Srimad Bhagavatam: «Discussions about Me heard in the association of My pure devotees nourish your ears and hearts; they fill your souls with ecstasy. Only when someone proceeds in their spiritual life under the guidance of My devotees will they naturally develop proper faith, attachment, and devotion.»
What is written in books and what is heard directly from the sadhu are two completely different things! What we may read or hear outside the association of the sadhu is not hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah: nectarean words which nourish our hearts and fill us with ecstasy. Only when we hear from the sadhu are we receiving something in the proper channel, receiving something descending down from Goloka Vrndavan through the hearts of our parampara’s Gurus which is perfect and necessary for our spiritual life. Only when we hear in the proper channel from the sadhu is there a transmission of the power which reveals the essence of the scriptures’ words in our hearts. We are given real entrance into what we hear in the scriptures by the sadhu.8
Yudhisthir Maharaj was a wise man. He was very qualified and had studied so many scriptures: the Vedas, Vedanta, Upanisads, and so on. He also received much advice from various rsis and munis. But after studying so many things he was puzzled and could not find a settled position. «Everything is good; everything is bad. It is good; it is bad. It is good; it is bad. It is good; it is bad.» Yudhisthir Maharaj could not conclude what was the proper way to get relief from the illusory environment and become established in a clean position. Lastly he could only conclude that anyone who tries to discover what religion is simply by reading the scriptures will become crazy.
tarko ’pratisthah srutayo vibhinna
nasav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam
dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam
mahajano yena gatah sa panthah9
Yudhisthir Maharaj said, «We cannot take the advice of the Vedas directly. Our store of knowledge is very limited, and the knowledge given in the Vedas is very vast. The Vedas explain pratyaksa-jnan, paroksa-jnan [collective knowledge], aparoksa-jnan [subtle knowledge], and adhoksaja-jnan [transcendental knowledge]. Also, the rsis who describe Vedic knowledge present many different interpretations of it and are not always perfect. Parasar Rsi presented one conception; Vasistha Rsi presented another; Chyavan Rsi presented another; and so on. There are so many rsis, and they presented many different conceptions. Thus the jiva-souls become confused; they do not find the truth with only the scriptures, the differing opinions of the rsis, and their own minds. To find the proper conception we must follow the path of the Mahajans, the great souls, in whose hearts the truth is living.»
Svayambhur naradah sambhuh kumarah kapilo manuh
prahlado janako bhismo balir vaiyasakir vayam
In Srimad Bhagavatam Vedavyas indicated that Brahma, Narad Rsi, Siva, the four kumaras — Sanaka, Sanatan, Sananda, and Sanat, Kapiladev, Manu, Prahlad Maharaj, Janaka Raja, Bhismadev, Bali Maharaj, Sukadev Goswami, and Yamaraj are all Mahajans. These particular twelve Mahajans are described throughout the scriptures and are so glorious. Their primary qualification is that they are devotees of the Lord. Actually, all great devotees of the Lord should be considered Mahajans.
Once many of these twelve Mahajans who are listed in Srimad Bhagavatam were discussing a verse from Srimad Bhagavad-gita about the position of the Lord’s devotees, but they could not come to a proper conclusion about it.
In the meantime they saw Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur going by, and they called him over: «O Vaisnava Thakur! You know the proper meaning of this verse. Please come and join us.» Then Bhakti Vinod Thakur explained the verse to them, and they were very happy.
Devotees like Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur are the greatest Mahajans, and anyone who follows their guidance will be supremely benefitted.
labhas tesam jayas tesam kutas tesam parabhavah
yesam-indivara-syamo hrdaya-stho janardanah
«Bhagavan Sri Krishna is living in an effulgent way within the hearts of His dear devotees, and His Pastimes are always going on there very gloriously. Such devotees are truly great souls, Mahajans, and are always happy and successful.»
All directions should lead us toward Lord Krishna and the real Mahajans, Lord Krishna’s pure devotees. We must follow a proper devotee whose activity is top to bottom dedicated to Lord Krishna’s service. His practice and lifestyle will be the perfect example of religious life for us, and his guidance will give us the proper understanding of the scriptures. Discussing the scriptures with qualified Vaisnavas — pure devotees, sadhus — is always the best thing for practitioners. Practitioners know something, no doubt, but they do not know everything. When they discuss scriptural matters, with love and affection, with a qualified sadhu, then they must be benefitted by that — realisation of the proper meaning, feeling, and everything, will come to them.
When Krishna wants to reveal transcendental knowledge in your heart through His devotee, it must be revealed. Even you won’t be able to check it. So we need connection with Krishna’s devotees. Thus the actual question is: how can we recognise a genuine devotee, a true religious person? To whom does Krishna reveal Himself?
The first verse to explain this, which explains the theme of our book Religion of the Heart, must be:
vidvadbhih sevitah sadbhir nityam advesa-ragibhih
hrdayenabhyanujnato yo dharmas tam nibhodhata
Srila Guru Maharaj once gave a lecture in the library of Dhanbad before a gathering of many highly qualified pandits and wealthy persons. He started his lecture with this verse. He explained that people think religion is found in books and that those books are written in particular languages, but that religion does not actually come from books or languages: religion is communicated through the transcendental language of heart transaction.
All religion presented in scriptures is first revealed in the hearts of rsis, munis, and sadhus. After it appears in their hearts it is transmitted forward from heart to heart, and it later may take the form of books. So what can we say about religion? How much can we understand it? It is a matter of the heart. How can we feel the beauty and understand the glory of religion if our hearts are presently as filthy as a dustbin? Because our hearts are impure we must try to understand religion from a clean-hearted sadhu.10
What are the qualities of a sadhu? Vidvadbhih sevitah sadbhir: a perfect sadhu cleanly and clearly understands the Vedas, the Vedanta, and the essence of their directives (vidvadbhih). He always serves their purpose (sevitah). He has no deficiency in simplicity, cleanliness, or proper behaviour (sadbhir). He has control of his six senses, and he has regard for everyone. His only sadness is the suffering of others.
Vedavyas, the author of all the Vedic scriptures, was a true sadhu. He saw so many other sadhus and was also praised by so many sadhus. He knew everything about revealed knowledge. But more so than knowledge and even behaviour, what did he say was the best quality of a sadhu? Nirmatsaranam satam (SB: 1.1.2): the sadhu’s heart is completely clean and clear; there is not even a tiny dirty thing within it. This means that the sadhu is never envious of others (nityam advesa-ragibhih). He has no enviousness or anger and holds full love and affection within his heart for everyone. A sadhu with these qualities who is fully attached to Krishna consciousness is a real Mahajan, a real leader of humanity, and is always rightly engaged in religious service.
krsna-bhakta — niskama, ataeva ‘santa’
bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami — sakali ‘asanta’
One who is interested in the mundane — selfish enjoyment, liberation, or supernatural power — is not a sadhu. One who has no desire for selfish enjoyment, who wants to give rather than take, who is always engaged twenty-four hours a day in serving the desires of the divine Lord, he is a sadhu. He alone is a truly peaceful, perfect gentleman. Real religion is the beauty that appears within the heart of such a sadhu, the transcendental feeling revealed in such a sadhu’s heart through his life of service. Whatever advice and instruction such a sadhu expresses is true religious instruction and can never be harmful to anyone. If we will receive a heart transmission from that type of sadhu and follow his guidance, we must feel the benefit of a truly religious life and come to understand the universal religion of all souls (jaiva-dharma). If anyone will proceed according to the guidance of a pure sadhu, then from that launching pad they will happily fly into the sky of virtue and reach the peak of religion. There is no party spirit or sectarian interest in such pure religion.11
After Srila Guru Maharaj’s lecture, in which he made many of these points about true religion, one very well-to-do man in the audience spoke: «In the past we have heard about Vaisnava-dharma, and we considered that Vaisnava-dharma was a branch of Hindu dharma. But I am so satisfied with what I have heard from Srila Sridhar Maharaj that I now understand that all religious property is present within Vaisnava-dharma. I now know that Vaisnava-dharma is one; it is the true universal religion, and all other dharmas are subparts of Vaisnava-dharma. I feel now that the universal Vaisnava-dharma is the best thing for all jiva-souls.»
Srila Guru Maharaj’s style was always very broad and perfect. He was always conscious about what he was doing, and he always presented everything according to the scriptures politely with clear logic. Some sannyasis and brahmacharis would present our Param Gurudev’s conception, Srila Saraswati Thakur’s conception, in a hammering way, but Srila Guru Maharaj was completely different from them. I am fortunate that I have heard many things from Srila Guru Maharaj. I have seen that so many people received divine light from him, and that this light became the light of their life.
My life in Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math with Srila Guru Maharaj was always very restricted. I would not do anything without the permission of Srila Guru Maharaj. At least I can say for myself that I never did anything that Srila Guru Maharaj did not give me permission to do. When the property of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math was in a critical position I had to go to Kalna every day for two months to defend the Math in court. Each day I would travel from the Math to the court in Kalna and return home, but I would not go anywhere else along the way.
One day Srila Guru Maharaj asked me, «Have you seen the temple of Gauri Das Pandit in Kalna?» I said that I had lived near the temple all my life, but that I had never once seen the temple. Srila Guru Maharaj said, «Next time you go to Kalna offer your dandavat pranam to Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu there.» It was only then that I ever visited that temple. Also, I never visited Mahaprabhu’s sannyas place in Katwa for twenty-eight years until I received the service-order of Srila Guru Maharaj.
Our life was very restricted under Srila Guru Maharaj, but we actually never felt any restriction. We always felt everything to be the natural love and affection of Srila Guru Maharaj. We felt that our service life was guided by Srila Guru Maharaj and we could simply, and happily follow his orders. That was the natural law of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math: everyone would follow the rules automatically with love and affection.
It is always best when people will follow religious rules and regulations naturally with love and affection, with respect and honour. This was the standard we followed in Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math from the beginning, and we never felt the necessity for anything else. In that environment I heard from Srila Guru Maharaj for many years and learned something about the essence of the scriptures, the essence of religion, through him.
yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane
ekanta asraya kara chaitanya-charane
chaitanyera bhakta-ganera nitya kara ‘sanga’
tabe ta’ janiba siddhanta-samudra-taranga
«Go and study Srimad Bhagavatam with the Vaisnavas. Sincerely take shelter of Sri Chaitanya’s feet and always associate with His devotees. Then you will understand the wavesin the ocean of Truth.»
ohe prabhu dayamaya, tomara charana-dvaya
sruti-siropari sobha paya
guru-jana-sire punah, sobha paya sata guna
dekhi amara parana judaya
«O merciful Lord! Seeing Your feet become more beautiful atop the heads of the scriptures and a hundred times more beautiful atop the head of my Guru soothes my heart.»
9«Reasoning is inconclusive; the scriptures are variegated; one whose conception is not distinctive cannot become a rsi. True dharma is thus secretly concealed. Therefore, the way of the great souls is the path.»
sadhunam sama-chittanam sutaram mat-krtatmanam
darsanan no bhaved bandhah pumso ’ksnoh savitur yatha
«As there is no darkness when one’s eyes see the sun, so there is no bondage when one sees the equipoised sadhus whose hearts are exclusively dedicated to Me.»
tulayama lavenapi na svargam napunar-bhavam
bhagavat-sangi-sangasya martyanam kim utasisah
«There is no comparison between even a moment of association with the Lord’s associates, and heaven or liberation. So what is to be said of mortal benedictions?»